How Do I Get More Podcast Listeners? With Theresa Hoover [Co-Host of Pass the Baton] [Ep. 136]
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Here’s what to expect from this episode:
One of the best things about podcasting is connecting with other people. And one of my goals this year is to connect with more of YOU who listen to this podcast every week. I recently sent an email asking if anyone would like to come on the show and share their experience with podcasting. I was so happy to get so many responses from you all, and today's episode is one result of that email.
In this episode, I'm chatting with Theresa Hoover, co-host of Pass the Baton, a podcast for music teachers. In the first part of the episode, Theresa shares her background and how she and her co-host, Kathryn Finch, got started in podcasting after writing a book together, what it's like co-hosting a podcast, and, you guessed it, how to get more podcast listeners.
And that's what the bulk of this episode is all about. I give Theresa suggestions on getting more podcast listeners by utilizing SEO within podcast listening apps, email marketing, audience surveys, reviewing stats to drive content planning, and so much more!
None of these suggestions are super hard, but by incorporating them one at a time, week by week, Theresa and Kathryn can work towards their goal of getting more eyes and ears on their podcast this year. This was a really fun episode to record, and I can't wait for you to hear it!
Topics Covered:
How Theresa got started in podcasting after writing a book with her co-host
SEO tips for podcast listening apps
Utilizing email marketing and audience surveys
Reviewing stats to drive content planning
Guest pitching and encouraging guest promotion
Other marketing ideas and opportunities
Resources mentioned:
MEET Theresa:
Theresa Hoover is a music educator, speaker, and writer. She advocates for student voice in the music room, working to empower students throughout their musical experiences and help teachers transform their classrooms into student-centered learning environments.
Theresa has taught music in a variety of settings, most recently teaching middle school band in Northern Virginia. Theresa is a Google for Education Certified Trainer and Innovator, frequently working with teachers to help integrate technology into their music classes. She is the author of the book Empowering Ensembles With Technology, the co-author of Pass the Baton: Empowering All Music Students, and the co-host of the podcast Pass the Baton: Empowering Students in Music Education. Theresa is currently working towards a PhD in Music Learning and Teaching at Arizona State University, where she teaches undergraduate music education classes.
Connect with Theresa:
On Instagram @MusicalTheresa and @PasstheBatonMusicEd
favorite podcasting resources:
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Transcription: Otter.ai
Project Management: ClickUp
Private Podcasting: Hello Audio
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Leverage Podcast Guesting: Guesting for Educators Mini-Course
Connect with Sara:
Related episodes:
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Sara Whittaker 0:00
Hey there and welcome back to podcasting for educators. One of my goals this year is to connect with more of you who listen to this podcast. And so I recently sent out an email asking if anyone would like to come on the show and share about their experience with podcasting. I was so happy to get so many responses from you all and today's episode is one result of that email. I have Theresa Hoover on the show who co hosts a podcast called pass the baton empowering students in music education. Teresa and her co host Catherine Finch are two music educators passionate about helping teachers transform their students from passive consumers to vibrant creatives. Each of their episodes amplifies the voices of music teachers who are already passing the baton and empowering their own music students. Inside this episode, you'll hear all about how Theresa and Catherine got started with their podcast after writing a book together. They also share about what it's like having a co hosted show and how they distribute all of the podcasting duties. One of the things that Katherine and Theresa are focusing on is bringing in more listeners to their podcast. And so that's what the bulk of this episode is about. You'll hear me ask Theresa some questions about what they're currently doing what's working, and then I'm going to offer her some suggestions of how they can bring in some new listeners get some more ears and eyes on their podcast this year. This was a really fun episode to record and I can't wait for you to hear it. So let's get started. Your Podcast is a powerful tool that serves your audience and your business. But how do you manage it all bring in new listeners and convert those listeners into customers. That's what this show is all about. Welcome to podcasting for educators. I'm Sara Whitaker, classroom teacher turn podcast manager. And I'm here to help you get the most out of your show, all while making an impact on other educators. Hello, Teresa, welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much for being here.
Theresa 2:06
Hi, thanks for having me. This is so exciting.
Sara Whittaker 2:09
I know. It's always so fun. You know, we talk we talk to people online, but being able to actually connect and see your face is so nice. So thanks again for being here. I am so excited, we're gonna touch on a few different things. We're going to start out just by hearing a little bit about your experience, which is unique because you have a co hosted podcast. So I always love to hear like the logistics behind that. So we'll get into some of that. And then we'll talk a little bit about, you know, things that are going well things that are have been a little bit challenging, and hopefully brainstorm some strategies that you can walk away with today. So to get started, can you just tell us a little bit about your podcast and why you and your co host decided to start in the first place.
Theresa 2:55
So our podcast is called pass the baton empowering students in music education. And the idea is my co host, Catherine Finch and I were both music teachers. We love working with music teachers. So we started this for music teachers. It really started actually back in like 2019, when Katherine and I wrote a book on the same topic, same same title was something we were really passionate about this idea of giving students more ownership in music classes, we were starting to see that more in general education. And we really wanted to help music teachers, we wrote this book, it came out in 2020. And if you remember, 2020, there was also a pandemic. Wasn't that a great fire thing? You know, great time to release a book about teaching. But that's okay. You know, we did it. And then we were actually getting some really great feedback about it. And we were trying to figure out how do we, how do we share stories of people who are really like doing this thing. And we thought, let's start a podcast. Because we we were excited to hear from teachers who were giving their students ownership and who had found this way to really encourage the student voice in the music rooms, we thought this would be the perfect platform. We both loved podcasts. We were both working from home at the time and had lots of time. Well, well, different time, maybe not lots of time. And we just thought we would start. And what's kind of funny is when we actually started we started as a YouTube channel because we had it in our heads that that would be easier than a podcast.
Oh my gosh, I have no idea why we made you that way. I don't know. Podcasting just seems scary. We're like, oh God cast, but YouTube. We're like, oh, we can do YouTube. We make videos all the time.
Sara Whittaker 4:28
That's amazing, because I feel the opposite. Which is why I'm not on YouTube yet. So I love No, I love that perspective. So it's just that was it. I
Theresa 4:35
mean, it was fine. We did great. We recorded so we would interview our guests on Zoom. Katherine's great with editing and movie creation and all that good stuff. So she would edit. I was in charge of like the social media and we called it the blog post, but really just like show notes on the website. And it was great. And we did that for about probably eight months. And then when it was coming around the time that the book was gonna be out for a year. We're like we should do We should like do something to celebrate the the books birthday and like, let's make it a podcast. And then we did. So we took I took all those episodes I did some research on on what to do. And it was funny to us how simple it was right once once we did it and once we realized like, oh, we can even upload the same video file into the podcast player and that works.
Sara Whittaker 5:21
Yes. But I mean, that's so common. Everybody feels that way that like there's all this crazy tech involved. And then really, especially if you've already got a YouTube video, you already you've already done the hard part. Exactly,
Theresa 5:32
exactly. So yeah, yeah. So that's so now we're on we're calling it season three, we have we just released episode number 61. We usually take some time off in the summer, we try to do episodes every other week, just because we're both We're busy. Like there's a lot going on. And but we've been pretty, pretty consistent. And really, we love it. Like we joke that it's it's almost a selfish endeavor, because it means that we get to talk to really cool people in our field and help share their stories.
Sara Whittaker 6:02
Yeah, that's such an unexpected benefit of podcasting, I think is once you start doing those interviews, it's so fun to connect with people that you otherwise would not have the chance to do so. So I totally agree with you. And yeah, I had skimmed through and I saw that you all do about every other week, which is good to point out because while you're not doing weekly, you've been consistent with your release schedule, which I think is great. And it's something that you can keep up with. It's more manageable than doing it weekly. Yeah,
Theresa 6:33
we had to think about what was going to be what was gonna be manageable, what was going to be something that we could do consistently and not be stressed about and not, you know, so I know a lot of people talk about weekly is better. But this is the best we can do.
Sara Whittaker 6:46
Right? Yeah. And I think that that's great to own that and to stick with that. Now I'm curious. So do you all. And I'm sure that people who are listening are curious to what do you do? Do you have a joint business since you have this book together?
Theresa 7:03
No, but we really should. So if you're listening? Yes, do that. It's one of the things that's on the to do list. That's just like, it needs to happen. Yeah.
Sara Whittaker 7:14
So then okay, how are you? Like, what are you? Are you pointing your listeners to anything specific? In your episodes, besides your book, like I saw that you have some, you all do coaching? I saw that you have some freebies, tell us a little bit about that.
Theresa 7:30
Yep, we have our website. And on the website, there are various resources that are usually just things that we've created that we you know, we give to people that can help them. We do offer coaching we do, we'll do like school district professional development, things, conference, presentation, stuff like that. But I feel like that's an area that we're still working on, right? We know what we want to do. We wanted, we want to get like the word out to more music teachers, we want people to be thinking about this idea of student ownership in their classrooms. And we want to be sharing the stories of people who are doing it in fun, creative ways. But beyond that, we we sometimes don't know exactly what else we're doing and how we're doing it, if that makes sense.
Sara Whittaker 8:09
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Things tend to just kind of like adapt along the way. And you kind of have to learn which direction you want to go in. But you've got I mean, I feel like your messaging is very clear what your mission of your show is, and of your book is very clear, which is like very important step one.
Theresa 8:27
Yeah. And that's something we always try to keep in the back of our heads, like no matter what we're doing, like, Okay, how does this? How does this get down to like what we really want to accomplish? Right?
Sara Whittaker 8:37
Do you all share an email list? Yeah, we have an email list. Okay. And it's a joint one. Okay. Well, yeah, I
Theresa 8:43
mean, it's a pass the baton email list. Yep. Okay, so episode releases on a Monday, the email goes out on a Tuesday. Okay, email list.
Sara Whittaker 8:51
Perfect. Okay, tell us before we get more into into those details, because I am very curious. Tell us a little bit about since you're co hosted show, how do you split up all of the production piece? And even as could be, as are all of your episodes, guest episodes?
Theresa 9:07
Almost all? Yeah, we do it. We've done a couple that are just the two of us.
Sara Whittaker 9:11
Okay. So even things like scheduling with the guests. Like, how do you how do you distribute that? So
Theresa 9:17
Google is our friend, we, everything lives it, we have a shared Google folder, and you know, folders upon folders inside of there. So everything's in there, we have one document that's called list of potential guests, and it'll say like a guests name. And then either there'll be a spot for either a link or just like stuff. So if one of us is at a conference, and we hear someone, we're like, ooh, and we just pop it in the document, things like that. So we have this running list that we share. We have a template, like a Google doc template for interviews that okay, like I'm getting ahead of myself. So usually one of us whoever has kind of the connection with the guests will reach out and schedule it. They schedule through a Calendly that I have set up that has both of our availability on it. And then When the Calendly goes out, they get a zoom link. And then Katherine and I will kind of work together to make sure that we we have questions prepared, like questions or talking points. That's in a Google doc template. So all of its at all of its there, like the template has, you know, Episode, guest date, the Zoom link, you know, title, and then we have the spots that we just kind of fill in as we go. So we record the episode, as soon as it's done recording, then I start working on the graphics for it. I do that all in Canva. And then Katherine starts working on the editing. So she does all of the audio and video editing. She's good at it, she enjoys it. So I'm gonna go ahead and take this. And then she gets all of that uploaded to YouTube. I do the, like I said, the Canva graphics. I've been using descript to grab a transcript from the episodes. And then I use that. I'm sure people do this, too. I use that transcript through AI through chat GPT to help me with my show notes to help. Like any kind of like social media content, things like that. So yeah, I use I use chat GPT to help me with all those things. And then like, I kind of put together I use that info to put together the web page, like show notes. Yeah,
Sara Whittaker 11:10
that's awesome.
Theresa 11:11
I mean, yeah, so my fair split. Oh, yeah. Cuz I say my tasks are all like little things. And Katherine's got the editing. But I think it, I think it pretty much balances out.
Sara Whittaker 11:21
Yes. And I find that usually even people who are doing, who are just a single host, if they're producing their own show, they either they love either editing or show notes. Like it's one or the other. They usually have one task that they dread doing every week. So I think it's nice that you all split it up that way. Yeah.
Theresa 11:39
And I guess I should also add, Katherine also will do when she does the editing, she'll take, she'll find like a one minute preview clip that she'll make a reel out of. So that's kind of part of her. Yeah, it's, it's just so nice that you can like I can really think through okay, here are my tasks. I can do them all. I don't. It's not like I'm waiting for things. And we're going back and forth and stepping on each other's toes. It just it works out really, really well.
Sara Whittaker 12:03
Yeah. And also, probably having that every other week schedule is probably nice as well, to have that buffer time. Do you do any kind of batching? Are you usually kind of episode by episode,
Theresa 12:15
we try to bulk record as much as we can. Like we recorded a bunch over winter break. Yeah, you know, we record a bunch over the summer. So we try to make it so that we're not like continually recording episodes. Now, Katherine's a lot better at this is like some of her strengths will record the episode and she'll like she'll get that thing turned around and edited pretty quick. Yeah, I'm more like, Oh, get the other stuff done. I'm the one who's like, finishing up the shownotes. And all of that the weekend before it comes out. But that's just, that's just how we work. Yeah, everything gets done. And yeah,
Sara Whittaker 12:51
exactly. Everything gets done. That's all that matters. At the end of the day, have there been any challenges? Because you are a co hosted show? Or has everything pretty much gone smoothly?
Theresa 13:03
I can't think of challenges. I mean, every once in a while we will challenge each other in a good way. Like, I'll say something and she'll go, oh, I don't know. Is that what you really mean? Not not on air. But like, as we're preparing for things, I'm like, Okay, you're right, let me think about this, or yeah, we'll be talking about whether we think someone might be a good fit for a guest. So I like it, that there is someone to push back, we found the same thing, when we were writing the book, you know, I would write a paragraph and she'd be like, you might want to tone it down a little and make that a little more accessible. Or, you know, Annika say to her, um, maybe we're using too many words here. And so we we found a way that we can really balance each other and push in the right ways just to make the other person better when it's great.
Sara Whittaker 13:46
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I see that as a huge benefit. I think a lot of people who are podcasting on their own, it's like, a lot of second guessing yourself have does this sound okay? Or being very critical of yourself or kind of just like putting stuff out there without thinking too much about it? Like I think there are people who are kind of on both spectrums, so it's nice to have that almost like built in accountability partner and instant feedback.
Theresa 14:12
Yes, it's it's really great. And it's we've been working together for so long, and I feel like there's never Oh, well, Catherine said something mean to me like, that's not a you know, we know that it's, it's meant to help help each other grow and help, you know, pass the baton grow. Yeah,
Sara Whittaker 14:27
absolutely. And were so for your guests. Are most of these guests a warm connection to you all? Where do you usually find most of your guests?
Theresa 14:37
Oh, all kinds of places, social media, at conferences, listening to other podcasts, people sometimes will recommend they'll say, Oh, hey, you should really check out what this person is doing. Sometimes we do get people who approach us and sometimes those are good fits. And sometimes we say we really appreciate your work. We'd love to support you, but that's not a good fit for the podcast right now.
Sara Whittaker 14:59
Yeah. And that's really important to hear I've I've talked to podcasters. Who, because it can feel a little bit uncomfortable if you have somebody approach you and you know, you want to put out the best content, that's the right fit for your listeners, like at the end of the day, that's what matters. And it's okay this to tell somebody, I don't know that this is the best fit at this time.
Theresa 15:19
Yeah. Because and I'm we always try to say like, we're so excited to support you on social media. And yet, but yeah, I feel like that's something that we're both really particular about just making sure that whoever the guest is really aligns with our values and like the mission of our podcast.
Sara Whittaker 15:36
Yeah, absolutely. Now, you touched on, we touched a couple minutes ago on how how great it's been to be able to connect with all of these different kinds of people through podcasting. What other like what else has come out of podcasting so far for you all, whether it's from like a personal standpoint, business that is going really well for you? Like, how has this podcast paid off? I guess? That's
Theresa 16:02
such a good question. I have to think about it for a second. I mean, as I said, the the people, to me is the biggest thing. I absolutely love connecting with the guests. And I feel like when we finish an interview, you just you have a new friend, and you have a new, another person in your court. And it's just really wonderful. But then it's also been fun to connect with people who listen to the podcast, and to hear from them. And just to see getting little messages on social media, like Oh, my goodness, I listened this episode, and now I'm doing this or now I'm so excited about blank. And so I think, for me, it's the people, whether it's the guests or the listeners, just in general, I love that and feeling like we're doing something good for the field.
Sara Whittaker 16:44
Yes, no, it's so it's the best feeling when somebody reaches out to you and says, like, not only do I love listening, but I actually took what I learned on your show and have applied it and you get to really see that like direct impact that you're making. Yeah, it's,
Theresa 17:00
it's awesome. Yeah, it's the
Sara Whittaker 17:01
best. Okay, so let's get into a little bit of what we could do to help improve because I know that when we talked before booking this interview that one of the things that you all, are struggling a little bit with or want some ideas on is how to improve your listenership and bring in more listeners, right? Yep.
Theresa 17:21
We've been we've seen growth since the beginning. But I think I would love to see us get up to that next level and get even more people listening. Because the guests we have are just too good. They need more people hearing their voices.
Sara Whittaker 17:33
Yes, yes, for sure. Yeah. So it sounds like it's really a matter of like getting more eyes and ears on your show. Yes.
Theresa 17:41
And I think we're both we try not to be too pushy. And I think maybe that's too hard. that's holding us back a little bit. Yeah. But yeah, a lot
Sara Whittaker 17:53
of people struggle with that you're not alone. So tell us a little bit first. So I can just have an understanding. What are some things that you have tried? What are you currently doing on? And you touched on this? A little bit like you said, you you know your when you release episodes, they release on a Monday, you send out an email on Tuesday? Is there anything else? Tell us what you're doing so far to try and bring in new listeners?
Theresa 18:19
The one thing we did, and this is somewhat credit to you at all, as well, we did really look at art shows title, description, and all of that stuff, just to make sure that we're popping up in when people are searching for podcasts. When we first started, our show was actually called pass the baton, empowering all music students. And over the summer, we were doing some work with some people. And they suggested that we change that slightly so that it because there wasn't a great keyword in the title. So now we changed it to pass the baton. And now I'm gonna say I have it empowering students in music education. So now it says music education in there. Uh huh. Which we're kind of assuming, is a key word. So that's one thing that we've done, I think has helped. In addition to that, so we when the new episode comes out, it goes on social media, we have a Facebook page. So it goes into Facebook page. And then Katherine, I both tried to share it on our personal feeds. It goes on Instagram, as well. We have an Instagram that we're we started the past month on Instagram over the summer. And I feel like that growth has also been slow. So we will share it to that Instagram, and then we'll share it to our own using hashtags. I put it on LinkedIn and Pinterest and some of the other little ones, but I honestly don't push too hard. They're just I don't I don't know that I'm seeing seeing much come from it.
Sara Whittaker 19:37
Yeah, that was I was I was curious about LinkedIn. If you all had tried to leverage that at all. Yeah,
Theresa 19:42
I probably could do better. Like right now I just kind of post it and then walk away from it. Yeah,
Sara Whittaker 19:47
sure. I'm more of the belief of like going all in on one platform and then once you start seeing some traction and you feel like you're you have this space to be able to added that second platform. So, I mean, I would think that Instagram is probably a good place for you all to be.
Theresa 20:06
Yeah, I think so too. But yeah, it's it's just a matter of getting more eyes on things. And that's what we're not. And I'm, you know, a very fluent with social media but I'm also not like the most understanding of all the things. Sure. Yeah, I try not to spend too much time there.
Sara Whittaker 20:23
Yeah, you and me both. Okay. So I love that you. Let's start with SEO, SEO within listening app specifically, I love that you've put some work into tweaking things. And I, I am just and this might not be what you want to hear. But I am thinking as I was kind of looking through your show, the one key word that really would stick out to me would be music teacher. Okay. Yeah. And when I searched that you're not popping up in search for that. When I put in music education you are, which is great, because that's what's in your, you know, it's part of your main title, which is great. So that's working, but I just wonder, because right now, it's passed the baton empowering students in music education, but you're really targeting those music teachers. Correct? Right? Yep. So I'm wondering if that would be worth trying out is, I mean, you could keep what you have, but just tweak it slightly, like empowering music teachers and students in music education. I mean, that might be a little repetitive, but we could kind of play with that. But I feel like that keyword music teachers, which is in your show description, which is okay, but I do find that the title carries a little bit more weight when it comes to search. So that would definitely be something that I would consider. I also you might you might already know this, but there are like, two or three other podcasts called pass the baton. Did you have you seen that? Oh, goodness,
Theresa 22:03
no, I'm not surprised. Because there's I know that there's other like hashtags. But they're probably let's see, what are they probably
Sara Whittaker 22:10
about? They're not from what I saw. They're not about music right there.
Theresa 22:15
I bet you one is maybe like running. One. I
Sara Whittaker 22:17
do think that one was running one was about like, I think it was like for women in like mid like mid age women. Oh, interesting. But it looks like and this is what's frustrating about search is when I put in pass the baton, I want to say that maybe you were number four that came up. And the three that were which is good. But the three that were ahead of you are not even active anymore. Frustrating? Yeah. Which unfortunately, they don't really factor that into. Yes. I mean, in a sense, they do, but not totally like, inactive podcasts will still pop up. So, you know, this is always hard, because your book is called pass the baton. And I think that it's important to be cohesive with your business and with something as important as a book. So I don't necessarily know that you need to change the title, especially knowing that those other podcasts are not active. But I would try that music teacher keyword. Okay.
Theresa 23:11
I was just thinking, I wonder if we did something like pass the baton, empowering students in music education, comma, a podcast from music teachers absent just extending it a little bit. So it's still past the it's still like the message, but we're getting that keyword in there.
Sara Whittaker 23:28
Yes, absolutely. That would be a great thing to try. And, you know, I didn't check. Do you have anything in your author field?
Theresa 23:36
That's a great question. I think it might be our names.
Sara Whittaker 23:40
Yes. It has no, this. No, no, it has your names. And then it looks like it has music education. So that will be another place that you could also put music teacher, I would put it in okay says that's a great idea. And that, you know, that is something that's going to get you like instant, like probably if you change that today, within an hour, you're going to see that that change in search. If you put in music teacher in Apple podcasts, you'll see that you all will start popping to the top there. So that's a really simple change that can have a really big impact. Because just it's hard because sometimes we have to guess like, what are people searching for? But I know for me, I think of like, what I can what your listener considers themselves, like what they title themselves, that would be one of the first things that they would search for. Okay, so I would definitely try that. The other question I had for you is your emailing every every week when an episode comes out. So every every other week, are you sending an email on the off weeks?
Theresa 24:39
Right now? We're not know, mostly just because of time and capacity.
Sara Whittaker 24:44
Yeah, for sure. No, I totally get that.
Theresa 24:47
And I was gonna say we try to make the email more than just, hey, here's a podcast. So we call our email take five which is kind of like a little music joke.
Sara Whittaker 24:56
I love it.
Theresa 24:58
because we have to right? So it has the podcast. But then what the idea is that there's five things we think you might like this week, right? So there's the podcast, and then for other links, either to something that we've made, or some people who are just doing good work, and we want to share or whatever. So we try to make sure that it's a, it's an email, like that's meant to help people and not just say, like, listen to our podcast.
Sara Whittaker 25:19
Great. And that's, that's perfect. That's what I always recommend. Okay, because it hooks people in more than just saying, the same blanket statement of, hey, new podcast episode. Here's the link. Yeah. So that's great. I mean, if you feel like you ever get to a point where you could add a second email, you could experiment with doing a second email on those off weeks where you are taking some sort of like teaching point from a previous episode and directing people back so that you can, you know, be driving traffic back to places? Do you have any feel of how many of your email subscribers listen to your podcast?
Theresa 25:57
I have no idea that not sure how to know that? Yeah.
Sara Whittaker 26:02
So this is I always like to tell people like when we're trying to grow our listenership, let's first tap into that audience that we already have. And so your email list is a really good, great place to start. And it's really interesting, when we ask people on our email list, even though we're, we feel like we're constantly talking about our podcasts, they might actually have either no idea that you have a podcast, or there really are a lot of people out there still who don't know how to listen to podcasts, they're not familiar with them, they haven't entered that world yet. And so we really want to educate them about how easy it is to listen, especially for your audience of teachers, music teachers. So I would probably recommend sending out a survey of some sort to your email list. And I can send you an example, when we get off of a survey that I've sent out before, when you send an email. So when you send a survey to your email list, the big points I like to touch on are to make sure that you keep it really simple for people to fill out like we're talking like one or two minutes. So most, like 95% of the questions should be multiple choice, so that people don't feel like there's a barrier. If people feel like it's going to take them a long time, they're not going to fill it out. And so for, for your purpose of sending this first survey, I would want the intention to be for you to gain more information about who on your email list is listening to your podcast. And then secondary would be of these people. What are their needs and desires? Like? What do they want to hear on the podcast? So you can ask simple questions like, How often do you listen to our podcast? pass the baton? And your answer choices could be every time a new episode comes out, I pick and choose episodes, I didn't know that you had a podcast. So that question right there would give you that really quick information of okay, I can look at my results and see that, you know, 60% of our email list listens on a regular basis. This many people didn't even know that we had a podcast. So the point of the survey is to not just gather information, but to also educate people about the fact that you have this great show. And here's how you listen. It's also a really great time to ask people to rate and review your podcast. So again, I can send you like a sample of of survey questions that you could ask, but I think this would be a really great way to just get that good information about your listeners. Yeah.
Theresa 28:35
Okay. That's a great idea. And then I would, I'm envisioning this email being separate from our typical bi weekly, right, this would be something
Sara Whittaker 28:42
else. Yes, absolutely. So I would probably send this on one of your off weeks. And the only point of this email is to get people to fill out this survey. This is your only call to action. It's the only link in your email. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. And you can just do it on a Google form. It can be super simple. That's easy. Yeah, yeah. So hopefully the idea here is to start converting more of these people over to podcast listeners and also get an understanding of what they want to hear on future episodes because that's another big piece of this when we think about how you can bring in new listeners is looking at your current content and making sure that it's the right fit for your audience. So my next big question for you would be do you all currently track your podcast stats at all
Theresa 29:36
within like the podcast hosting thing you mean? Yes, yes. Okay. Yes, we do.
Sara Whittaker 29:40
Say you look at your like downloads from a monthly view do you also do like per episode download?
Theresa 29:47
Yeah, I can see all of that within the within the podcast player. So it'll show me you know, how many people listened at all on a day how many people listened to which episodes how many total for each episode, all those good things?
Sara Whittaker 29:59
Awesome. Have you ever looked in Apple podcasts connect specifically? No. Okay. So this would be another great takeaway for today would be to, you can log into your apple podcasts Connect account. And there's a, it's either called podcast stats or podcast analytics. But you can see your average consumption rate for each episode. This is really great information for you to get a feel of what type of content people are enjoying the most. So you can see like, it'll list out each individual episode, and it will tell you like, the average consumption rate is 60%. For this episode, this episode, it was 90%. So you can in some ways that gives you better information than just download numbers. Because it really tells you like, Okay, this topic people were super interested in, are this guest people loved. Maybe we'll have that guests come back on again.
Theresa 30:58
Okay, because that's going to tell us not just who downloaded but how much they actually listened to? Yes,
Sara Whittaker 31:04
and which type of content you should be creating more of, or maybe you'll see that, you know, your longest episodes have the lowest consumption rates, so maybe you need to try and make your episodes a little bit shorter. Yeah. Okay.
Theresa 31:17
That makes sense. That's a great, great tip. Thank you. Yeah.
Sara Whittaker 31:20
Because when we can do a quick audit on how our current content is doing and we can think about ways to improve our current content, then that's going to, you know, when we when we have content that people are super engaged with, they're going to be more likely to share it and that's one great way to grow your listenership alone is word of mouth. Yeah. Okay, awesome. Yeah. Okay, next, because you all have so many guests on your show, do you send out like, before the episode after the episodes been produced, but before it goes live? Do you send the guest? The information like links and maybe some promotional graphics?
Theresa 31:59
Um, no, sorry, you've just made me think like, oh, so the day the episode comes out, I send an email to the guests. And I say thank you so much. And I, here are the links, please share, please leave a review. Let's keep in touch all of that. So the day that episode comes out, we do that after we record an interview. We always will mail like US postal mail, the guests a little handwritten thank you card with a sticker. No,
Sara Whittaker 32:25
I love that. I
Theresa 32:25
don't know if that's like over the top,
Sara Whittaker 32:27
but we love it. No, I love when people do that. I absolutely love that I actually I was a guest on a podcast. And they did that a few weeks ago. And it was so nice. And then it also will sometimes prompt people to like snap a picture and put it on their Instagram too.
Theresa 32:41
You know if that happens? That would be great. Yeah, but no, I should totally be sending them the promo graphics to that. Yeah, I don't know why I don't do that.
Sara Whittaker 32:52
I would. And I would explicitly ask them, like, you know, word of mouth is a great way to make more music teachers aware of this podcast, we would love if you and you know, my vary on the type of guests you have, like, if it's, if it's a music teacher who doesn't have a business, and they're probably not gonna have an email list. But if it's somebody that might have an email list, and even if it's not, anybody can put that graphic on their Facebook page and say, Hey, look at this, and then their coworkers are gonna see it. And that just has this trickle effect.
Theresa 33:23
And we noticed that with downloads, like we noticed, you know, the people who are sharing it the most on social media, we will see an uptick in downloads for that, or, you know, like, we had one guest who really just only shared the YouTube link, which is fine. And we had a ton of YouTube views. Well, that's great, because that means that people were listening and watching and enjoying and it was neat.
Sara Whittaker 33:46
Yes, absolutely. I know. You can always tell just by looking at those download numbers. Okay, this guests probably definitely shared. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. So that's another simple way. And I will add in in the email to the guest, if you're not already doing this, I also like to add a line, the very last line of the email, I like to ask them to leave a review for the podcast, and a lot of people will do that. Yeah, we do
Theresa 34:09
that. Okay. That's another thing. I know that we need to get more reviews.
Sara Whittaker 34:13
Yeah, and you guys have some which is great to see. I find that like making that ask on email. Or even like if you have anybody who messages you on Instagram and says that they loved your episode, make that ask one on one and put it in an email because you know, when people are listening to the episodes, they're probably driving or or you know, multitasking. But if you can ask when when somebody is actually on their phone or on their computer, that tends to do better. Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah. Okay, so let's talk a little bit more about like other options for visibility. So how, you know the first thing I always like to suggest is guesting on other podcasts so have you all aren't any of that?
Theresa 35:00
Oh yeah, some we've done some together and we do some individually depending on like, for example, I my focus is band. Katherine's focus is elementary school general music. So if the band podcast usually just me, yeah. Yeah, I haven't done one in a while. So maybe that's something to look into?
Sara Whittaker 35:17
Yeah, I would absolutely. I and I don't know exactly. You know, when I did that search for music teacher, there were definitely podcasts that popped up. So it seems like there are some good options out there for you all. So do you cover together? Do you cover like K? 12? Yep. That's the idea. That's great. Yeah, that's great. Because that extends your audience and the types of podcasts that you could potentially be on. So I would definitely make that a priority in the next like, six months or so would be to start sending some pitches out. Because, you know, anytime that you can get in front of people who already listened to podcast, it's going to be much easier to convert those people over to your show. Yeah.
Theresa 35:54
Okay. And you would just email the host and say, This is who I am in what I do, like, is that kind of informal? Or do you have something really formal that you would recommend? Yeah.
Sara Whittaker 36:05
So usually, what I recommend is doing some research, I like to just go into the listening apps, and put those keywords in, see what's popping up, find some good fit shows. So we're where you all have an overlapping audience, but you you serve them in a slightly different way. And scroll through, like you don't have to listen to all of their episodes, but scroll through it and see what kind of topics they've covered over the last six months or so to make sure that you're not suggesting a duplicate of anything. And when you when you email the podcast host, you want to have a specific topic in mind already to make it super easy for them. So you know, by scrolling through their episodes, that this topic would be a good one for their audience, because XY and Z. So you want to introduce yourself to the host and suggest this very specific topic, you can even list out some talking points for that topic. So that the host is like, oh, my gosh, this is awesome. This person, Teresa knows that this is a good fit. For my listeners, she knows who my listeners are, she's done the research, she knows that this would be a good fit, I don't even have to do any work to prep for this interview. She's done it all for me. So you want to just make it really easy for them. And just let them know that you've done that research and that you want to bring value to their listeners. Okay? Like, yeah, yeah. And once you do your first one, you can kind of plug and play with the other ones with the other emails that you send out. So I would, I think it would be a good goal to maybe pitch like three to five podcast hosts in the next month. Just because, you know, people's schedules are all different. Some people like to batch their episodes way ahead of time, some people go week by week. So if you can find three to five good fit shows and reach out to them, then that should you know, hopefully land you have a couple of interview spots in the upcoming months. Okay. And then just make sure that when you go on to guest on that podcast, that you're actually talking about your podcast, somewhere in that in that interview.
Theresa 38:15
That's a good point. Yeah,
Sara Whittaker 38:16
that's a piece that people miss sometimes. And another kind of similar thing that you could try is even just like a collaborative shout out that you do with another podcast host, like making this agreement of hey, in our next episode, I'm going to start the episode by shouting out your podcast, and then they can do the same for you. Like even something as simple as that can just raise awareness around your show.
Theresa 38:44
Yeah, okay. That's good. Now,
Sara Whittaker 38:47
you said that you all you do some, some PD, right, some conferences or some trainings. Yes. Okay. So this, I think, and I think a lot of people listening, this would probably apply to you as well, because I know a lot of people in this audience, do these PD trainings. Use that and you might already be are you talking about your podcasts at all when you do these trainings?
Theresa 39:12
Yeah. Especially if it's relevant. If it's the same topic, I will always mention the podcast. I always have stickers with me. Yeah. Good. So I'm always trying to talk about it. When the relevant if it's, you know, I have a conference presentation next week. That's all about Google. Not quite the same thing. Right. I might like mention it, but I won't go in depth. But when I'm talking about things related to student ownership, yeah. Okay.
Sara Whittaker 39:35
Awesome. Yeah, I and you can I love that you have stickers. So it sounds like you've gotten that covered. You could even do you know, like, bring some of those plastic picture frames that that has a printable with like a QR code that goes straight to your podcasts. You could even link to like a specific episode that relates to the topic that you're speaking on. Doing that can sometimes hook people in even more than just hearing about the podcast in general. So I think that there's just so much opportunity there when you find yourself in front of these larger groups of people. Yeah,
Theresa 40:07
that's a great idea. And do you find like, if you're gonna link to the podcast? Do you typically just link it to Apple? Do you link it to like, what? That's what I also struggle with struggle with, like, what link Am I giving you? Yes,
Sara Whittaker 40:18
great question. This is a very common question. So I like to give people a couple of options. And, for example, when I'm sharing on social media, I'll alternate between sending people to my show notes page on my website, for that episode, or using Have you ever heard of pod dot link? No. Okay. So that is what I like to use. When I'm not sending people to my website, it's totally free, you can you can go to pod dot link right now, type in your podcast, and it will pull up your podcast, it's kind of like a landing page, and it will have all of your episodes, but at the top, it will have buttons to like every player out there, which is so nice. So you can tell people, like I just read an email today and the email for the episode that went live this week. I give people two options. I say read the show notes here. And then on the next line, listen or listen on your favorite listening app here. And so they can click on that and it will take them so you're giving people the option? Definitely I always advise against just sharing the apple podcast link, because there are so many people who don't use apple.
Theresa 41:28
Yeah, I mean, I know from or at least I can see from the analytics that the majority of our listeners do come from Apple. But I know we have people who like Spotify. I know we have people who you know, there's all kinds of different platforms people use for different reasons. But I love that pod dot link pod dot
Sara Whittaker 41:43
link. Yep. Yes. And I totally agree the majority of your listeners will come from Apple, but the people who don't use Apple are very, like, anti apple. Yeah. Very strong opinions. So you definitely want to give people that choice. Spotify is very, is becoming very popular with people. So yeah, pod dot link is a great solution for that. And real quick, while we're on that topic, you guys are doing great with your show notes on your website, I looked at those, they look really wonderful. The only thing I would recommend is I noticed that you you have the episode player, kind of at the bottom of the page, I would put that at the very top of the post. And you could even have it in both places if you wanted. But I'm just thinking like when I first came to the page, I didn't think that there was a player on there at first. Okay, so because anytime that you want to, you know, if you're sending somebody to that post, you want them to see right away that they could kind of listen as they're skimming the show notes. That's, that's easy. Yeah, super easy. And like I said, you could have it in both places. I've seen people do that, too. Okay. The other little thing that I wanted to ask about is, and I'm not super familiar, because I don't I don't know much about the book space. But because you all have written this book. I know that you wrote it before the podcast came out. But like on Amazon, in the description, and in your bio, is there. Can you add your podcast to that?
Theresa 43:15
You know, probably, I'd have to look into it, because I have an Amazon Author Page that I believe I have control over. Yeah. So I think at least if nothing else, the author page, I would be able to add it to Yeah, I think the book itself, our publisher handles that. So I don't think but that's yeah, that's another good idea to add it to the author page is that I don't know if that would show up on the thing. But it would be somewhere if you know their place for it.
Sara Whittaker 43:46
Yeah, I clicked when I when I looked at your book on Amazon. And I saw, you know, right under the image of the book, it had both your picture and Catherines picture, and you could click on the links, and then it had, you know, information about each of you. So yeah, I would think that that would be a good place. Just you know, just to cover your bases. Right. Just to get it one more spot. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And anywhere that you anywhere like that, that you put the name of your podcast, I would make sure that you include that, you know kind of subtitle with it, too.
Theresa 44:17
That's a good idea. Yeah. Okay. And yeah, I mean, in our book, we definitely have the website link, which will if you go there, it'll get you to the podcast. Yeah,
Sara Whittaker 44:27
absolutely. And I don't want to throw too many ideas that you today. So I'll do one more. And then we can kind of recap here. But the only other thing that I really wanted to touch on would be you know, I saw that you all have some freebies like I saw an exit ticket that you were promoting and your episodes a good thing to do and maybe you already are doing this but when people sign up for that freebie, making sure that you have some sort of email sequence that they are going through and linking Some podcast episodes in that email sequence. Is that something that you all have tried before?
Theresa 45:06
Yes, I've done this. But now that we're talking about it, I want to make sure that that definitely is also attached to the exit ticket that we're talking you're talking about? Yeah. I mean, ours is it's basic, like I know, some people will say, Oh, you need a seven to 12. Whatever. I think ours is like maybe three emails that come. So we make sure that it's attached to the exit ticket, because that's, that would be really silly. If it wasn't, you never know. Yeah. And then you said, blinking specific episodes.
Sara Whittaker 45:34
Yeah. So I would either like if you have an episode that connects really well to this specific freebie, I would make sure that that's linked. But otherwise, I would choose an episode. That is one of your like, highest performing episodes. Yeah, kind of show off your best stuff.
Theresa 45:52
Yep. Okay, that's a great idea. Yeah. Yeah, cuz I know, we've done like the welcome sequence from we know if we do a conference presentation, and there's a, you know, like a freebie kind of thing. Yeah, I just don't remember if it's attached to the other thing.
Sara Whittaker 46:05
Now, sometimes we write, I have to go in and every, like, a lot of times when I'm suggesting stuff, I'm like, Okay, I need to go in and make sure that I haven't done this too. Okay, so hopefully, that gives you some good idea. So just to kind of recap, we talked about trying out that music teacher keyword. Yep. In your title, as well as it's already in your description, but also keeping that in mind for future episode titles as well. Okay. Yeah. And you could even, I mean, you can always update titles to like, if you have previous episodes, that that would be a good fit for you can replace the title and your host. Also with titles, I would include your guests name in your episode title, especially if they are somebody who might be like known in your, okay.
Theresa 46:52
Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. Okay, so SEO,
Sara Whittaker 46:55
trying out, if you have the capacity, trying out that second email on your off weeks, but definitely starting by putting out an audience survey that you're gonna send as a separate email, with its own call to action there, making sure that you're sending the deliverables to your guests before the episode airs. And then, as far as visit more like direct visibility, aiming to pitch three to five podcasts for interview opportunities, and seeing if you can kind of tune more into your podcasts when you're doing those PD conferences. Yeah. So those are some good suggestions, hopefully, that you can walk out today. Well,
Theresa 47:38
and I love that none of these are super hard. No, these are all things that I can do. I mean, you know, one at a time, by little, but I love the fact that there's nothing here that you're telling me it's going to take me an entire week to accomplish one cast. Right.
Sara Whittaker 47:52
So luckily, this is available. Yes. And do it one at a time, I would start today I would do that, add that keyword ready that you can do that in five minutes. And then next, I would do your audience survey. And then yeah, just kind of build on from there. And you can maybe do like one a week and kind of track things and see if you're noticing that growth. And I would, I would if you're not like if you're just kind of glancing at your stats on your host, I would definitely have like a formal spreadsheet where you're actually tracking these numbers, because sometimes it can be hard, like if we kind of pop in and we're like, oh, this was this month versus last month. But if you're tracking it on a spreadsheet, you can really see that kind of big picture growth over time.
Theresa 48:38
Okay, yeah, that's a good idea. All right. Do
Sara Whittaker 48:41
you have any follow up questions?
Theresa 48:43
Not right now, but you might get an email from you in a couple of weeks.
Sara Whittaker 48:47
Feel free? Definitely. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. Can you tell everybody where they can find you online after listening?
Theresa 48:57
Yeah, sure. So you can find me I'm on Instagram. It's just at musical Teresa. You'll get to see all kinds of fun things, everything from music teacher stuff to pictures of my dog and hiking. Love it, which you know, you got to have all that stuff. And then for the podcast where it's on Instagram is passed the baton music ed. Again, the podcast is called pass the baton empowering students in music education, with the potential added subtitle of a podcast for music teachers. Yep. And then our website is passed the baton book.com. Awesome.
Sara Whittaker 49:31
Well, Teresa, thank you again. This was a lot of fun. Yes,
Theresa 49:35
thank you. I really appreciate it.
Sara Whittaker 49:38
Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. To keep this conversation going connect with me on Instagram at podcasting for educators. I'm always looking for an excuse to talk about podcasting. If you're looking for support and launching, managing or growing your podcast, check out my online course the podcasting for educators prep school at podcasting for educators.com/preps Go I'll see you here next time
More about Podcasting for Educators:
Podcasting for Educators is the podcast for TpT authors and other online educators. It's a show that will help you get your podcast in front of those who need it most - teachers, counselors, literacy specialists, SLPs, parents, and more! Each week, Sara Whittaker and her guests will share top tips and actionable strategies that you will need in order to launch, manage, and grow your podcast. You’ll learn how to leverage your show to build long-lasting relationships with your audience and promote your TpT resources, courses, and memberships, all while providing valuable and accessible content!
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