Turning Listeners Into Email Subscribers with Out-of-the-Box Lead Magnets with Magan Ward [Organic Growth Series] [Ep. 84]

 
 

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Here’s what to expect from this episode:

Are you thinking about launching a new lead magnet this year? Whether you have yet to start your email list or are focusing on growth this year, it's time to start thinking outside the box.

With all the information thrown at us online every day, you need to think about how you can create a lead magnet (AKA opt-in) that is engaging and that people will be running to sign up for. Because then you'll have a great resource to share about on your podcast and, in turn, grow your email list. Or the other way around! Your email list and your podcast really do go hand in hand.

Today's guest Magan Ward is here to share why growing an email list is so important for podcasters, how she grew her own email list by 78% with a pop-up private podcast lead magnet, and some creative lead magnet ideas you can use this year.

Meet Magan:

Magan Ward is an Email Marketing Strategist that grew her own email list by 78% in less than one month with her signature pop-up podcast system.

She specializes in helping podcasters expand their audiences, increase downloads, and grow their email list by leveraging their email and podcast platforms alongside one another with marketing strategies that think outside the box.

Topics Covered:

  • Why it's so important for podcasters to have an email list

  • How Magan grew her own email list by 78% with a pop-up podcast lead magnet

  • Comparing private podcasts with traditional PDF opt-ins

  • Out-of-the-box lead magnet ideas for 2023

  • Action steps and tools to get you started with email marketing for your podcast

podcast-lead-magnets

  • Sara Whittaker 0:00

    Hello, hello and welcome back to podcasting for educators. Today's episode is perfect for you if you're thinking about launching a new lead magnet this year. With all the information that's thrown at us online every single day, you really need to think about how you can create a lead magnet that is engaging and that people will be running to sign up for, then you'll have a great resource to share about on your podcast, and in turn, grow your email list. Today's guest Megan Ward is here to share about how you can do just that. Megan Ward is an email marketing strategist that grew her own email list by 78% in less than one month with her signature pop up podcast system. And she specializes in helping podcasters expand their audience increase downloads and grow their email list by leveraging their email and podcast platforms alongside one another with marketing strategies that think outside of the box. Inside of this episode, Megan's going to share a little bit about why growing an email list is so important for podcasters. And she'll give us some great ideas on creative lead magnet ideas that you could use this year. Creating a really great lead magnet is such an awesome way to not only bring in new email subscribers, but also to bring in new podcast listeners, which you'll hear about in the episode as well. So whether you have yet to start your email list, or you are focusing on growth for this year, this episode is going to be perfect for you. Let's go ahead and get started. Your Podcast is a powerful tool that serves your audience and your business. But how do you manage it all bring in new listeners and convert those listeners into customers. That's what this show is all about. Welcome to podcasting for educators. I'm Sara Whitaker, classroom teacher turn podcast manager, and I'm here to help you get the most out of your show, all while making an impact on other educators. Hey there, Magan, welcome to podcasting for educators, they thanks so much for being here today.

    Magan Ward 2:08

    Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

    Sara Whittaker 2:11

    I am to this is going to be such a good topic. I know people are going to love this conversation. So can you first just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and how you got into this space of helping podcasters specifically with growing their email list?

    Magan Ward 2:28

    Absolutely. So I started my entrepreneurial journey as a photographer. Now, just for this audience, I am going to go back a little further than that actually have my master's in elementary education. So I don't share that on most podcasts. But it just feels appropriate for everybody listening in to your show, Sarah. But back to the photography side of things, I had began creating digital products for fellow photographers. And that is when I learned the importance of an email list in this digital and online space that we're in. And I kind of started nerding out over it. And then friends started paying me to write their welcome sequences and the rest is history. And that's kind of how I got into email marketing by way of photography. But I did not start working with podcasters specifically until July of 2021. My original and I like to call them my OG client, the podcast clients. They're a pair of sisters, they created a true crime podcast about five and a half years ago as something fun to do as sisters. They just loved watching Dateline in 48 hours and that sort of thing. And at first, they were just getting together once a week, recording a show and just letting it drop on Saturday mornings. They are local to me, this is how I even know who they are. I'll never forget going into the salon. During that first August that they started their show, which is how I knew one of the sisters. She was my hairstylist. And she goes, Hey, oh my gosh, guess what my sister and I started a podcast. And next thing I knew she was like, we've got 1000 downloads, and we were just completely amazed. Yeah, but now fast forward to over five years later, they've got over 10 million alltime downloads with over 750,000 downloads per month. And they're each bringing in over six figures from this little podcast that just started as you know, something fun to do as a hobby. But their email list was basically nothing. And that's when I came on board to help them take advantage of turning all of those podcast listeners into email subscribers ultimately, you know, moving them toward their Patreon and, and getting some more income from that and taking advantage of those listeners that were tuning into the show.

    Sara Whittaker 4:37

    What a cool story I especially love that they didn't even have they pretty much like didn't have an email list until you started working with them and like how cool to be able to watch that grow in such a massive way. So I love that what a cool experience now, from your experience with them and with your other clients. What do you think is the reason like why is it so so important to have an email list as a podcaster?

    Magan Ward 5:03

    Well, it's the perfect way to announce your latest episode, you can catch people up on episodes that maybe they missed in just ultimately increasing those downloads. When that client that I mentioned and I had we gotten together for a little lunch date, and we were chatting about their email marketing, and she was like, Oh, we've got to do something, why don't I just hire you to write a welcome sequence? And then she was like, Well, what can I do for a weekly email, because, you know, their email was not existent after the welcome sequence ended for like new members of their Patreon. And so they wound up hiring me to run the entire thing where I wrote and scheduled all of their weekly emails. Now, obviously, they were having all this success everywhere else, but they knew they wanted to grow their Patreon membership even more. And the only way to really successfully do that was through their email list. So when I started running that email marketing, which was like I said, that weekly emails, I also put a strategy in place to use lead magnets and social media, because their social media following was pretty substantial, to start moving all of those people to the email list, and then ultimately, their Patreon, which increases that monthly revenue. And their email growth just took off. Ever since then. And this was all organic. This was without Facebook ads, because they can't even run Facebook ads, because they're a true crime podcast. And that's a nother story for another day. But we didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, they're there. They're banned from running Facebook ads, which they're not sure to tell about at all. But But yeah, so there's just been a steady increase in their email list growth, and just all organic, and we were able to track those Patreon numbers closely as well. And we were seeing that direct correlation between their email list growth and our Patreon growth, as well as of course, weekly, and monthly downloads, which is one of the ultimate goals, because when your show gets a certain size, you start running ads and have more advertisers on your show increasing your monthly revenue as well.

    Sara Whittaker 6:58

    Yeah, oh, my gosh, it's so cool to like, see how everything progresses. And really in this scenario, it is because of the email list. And I love how you pointed out that you're not. So you're kind of you're driving listeners to your email list. And then you're also bringing social media followers to your email list, which turns them into customers and podcast listeners. So it's exactly this beautiful, ecos little

    Magan Ward 7:21

    circle. Yes, it is, it is so and now that I've said this, I want everybody to just keep in mind, these girls did not start putting stock into their email list until over four years into their show. So just know, it's never ever too late to really start using your email list in moving that traffic in that direction of your email list. And for this audience, you would get them from the show to your email list from your mailing list to your shop to start purchasing your products.

    Sara Whittaker 7:50

    Yes, that's such a good point, Magan. And I think I know a lot of you listening, maybe you haven't started your email list. Or maybe you feel like you started your email list. Too late. I feel like that's pretty common for a lot of people to kind of like drag their feet on starting their email list. I know that's how it was for me. I'd love to hear like your experience with your own email list. Because I know that you grew your email list by 78% in less than one month using a private podcast feed. So I'm a huge fan of private podcast. So I'd love to hear about your experience. Yeah, so

    Magan Ward 8:27

    yeah, sure did. Um, I had this idea for a pop up podcast event, and it was sort of like an audio webinar or an audio workshop, if you will. Now I'm gonna pause real quick and just really define what the hook pop up podcast is. For those that have never heard this before. It is an audio only event where my subscribers would listen in through their favorite podcast app. And it was they had to have this special link in order to put it into their podcast app, so you couldn't just go searching and find it. I kept my episodes bite sized and easily consumable, but the episodes were only available for about six days hence the pop part of the pop up podcast idea. It just kind of created a sense of urgency for people to listen and consume the content before everything disappeared. And now this is my signature and and now trademarked process for getting leads into my business. It's just it's perfect for any online business. Whether you're a service provider, providing digital products like most of us that are tuning into this show, or even group programs or courses it's a really a fun and innovative way to think outside the box to grow your list and nurture leads and prospective clients that meets them where they are at. And that thinking outside the box like stepping away from like what the industry gurus have told us about PDFs and checklists being the way to go to grow your email list now, don't get me wrong, PDFs still work. I still have a couple you're going to hear about one later in this episode too but because they are easy to create right in but this pop up pop iCast idea kind of takes it a step further and just kind of sets you apart from everybody else in the industry that can change the trajectory of your entire business. Because I was able to grow my list by 78%, like you mentioned a minute ago, in less than one month with this one event. And so, I mean, that was the lead magnet that really changed my business in my life, because it grew my email list to a point in such a short amount of time that I was actually able to start putting in real plans to leave corporate and go full time with my business. And it was just such a game changer.

    Sara Whittaker 10:35

    That's amazing. And it just shows like, yeah, how quickly your business can change literally, like overnight. Yeah, life changing.

    Magan Ward 10:43

    I have that date written down in my calendar. I'm gonna say it's like April 13, or something. Love that. Labor this forever?

    Sara Whittaker 10:52

    Yes, no, I love that. And I think the great thing about private podcast is like, how many PDFs have you downloaded? From somebody that sound great, and then you sign up for it, and you never even open it? Right? And so from like, the creators perspective, that person's never actually seeing your content, and really like getting to know the value that you're providing them. But with a private podcast, people know that they're actually going to listen to it because they can, they can do it whenever they want on on their time. And while they're doing other things. So that's what I

    Magan Ward 11:26

    love about it. Yes. And it breaks our heart because we worked so hard on this PDFs, knowing they're sitting there created collecting virtual dust in somebody's inbox somewhere. But yeah, that the pop up podcast, that was the best feedback I've ever gotten as well. People were like, I listened while I was, you know, dropping the kids off at school, or I listened while I was cooking dinner. It just really meets them where they're at, so they can consume it. And it's some of the same stuff that I had in a PDF. I just put it in kind of a podcast episode type form, which everybody probably listening could easily do that as well.

    Sara Whittaker 12:02

    Yeah, absolutely. And in some cases, like those are even easier to create than sitting down and like spending hours designing something in Canva, that again, maybe somebody's not even going to open. I'm curious if you don't mind telling us like, how many episodes was your pop up podcast? And did you have it open? Like, is it always open for people? But then it's only available to them for? I think you said six days? Or do you just release it at certain times throughout the year.

    Magan Ward 12:32

    So I did the first time I did this was four episodes, and then we're all 15 minutes or less, probably that's 10 minutes or less, honestly. And that particular topic, just to give you all an idea was kickstart your email list. And so it really went from the very beginning and nurture people that had no idea where to begin, or maybe they kinda started, but they really weren't sure. So four episodes, and they dropped on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, of that particular week, or I'm gonna go back I think they dropped on Tuesday, I do usually drop things on Tuesdays, I feel like we've all got our life together. So anyway, go forth with that four episodes starting on Tuesday. And then they were they stayed up and available until the About midnight on Monday, the following week, giving them about six days, I guess, for the last few episodes, it was a little less than six days. But because they were so bite sized, they were still able to go through a binge on pretty quick. That did fully go away. I want to bring it back as an evergreen thing. And I'm teaching my students how to do that as well. So that it's always an opt in, it's always out there and somebody can sign up and then they would have access to that private feed forever. So then it really wouldn't be a pop up, necessarily. But I would use it that time I was using it as a pop up event like a webinar or a workshop that was actually going to go away. So you can I mean, you could package it so many different ways, like a challenge, leading into maybe a soul that you're going to be having in your shop or anything like that. Hope. Does that answer a little? Yeah, what you asked, okay.

    Sara Whittaker 14:06

    Yeah, no, that's perfect. And there's yeah, there's so many different ways you can do it. And I love that idea of like, maybe for those of you who have a launch coming up and you don't want to do a live webinar, try something like a pop up podcast. I mean, that's so cool. And it can be so effective. And such a great email list builder. I have a mini series private podcasts that I have as like an evergreen opt in. And I always had it open, but I just recently discovered that I can set it so that I can always have it available. But when somebody signs up, they only have access to it for like five days or something. So it still kind of like creates that sense of urgency. Yes, I love it. Cool. Yeah. What do you use? I use Hello audio.

    Magan Ward 14:50

    I use Hello audio as well. Yeah, it's great. It's super user friendly. And they're always adding new cool integrations as well.

    Sara Whittaker 14:57

    Yeah, they're aren't they just like the most amazing Come on. Yeah, I just think there's

    Magan Ward 15:01

    really no, and you've probably some of you have probably seen this starting to happen as well using Hetal. Hello, audio course creators are now putting their courses into there as to I'm doing that I've got a newer course, it's called the School of email podcasters edition. I didn't plan on coming to talk about that necessarily today. But as I get the slide decks and the video filmed for the course, I put that in, but then I'm able to take that actual video and drag it into Hello audio, and it converts it into just an audio file. And that way, they can just listen so they can actually consume the course on the go. And it's amazing, I get such great feedback, because people can go through it pretty quick. And then they can go back later and watch the videos if there's something they really needed to see.

    Sara Whittaker 15:46

    Yes. Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad that you brought that up. And I'm actually glad you brought up your that email school because I'd love for you to talk about that at the end, because I saw that you launch that and it has such amazing stuff in it. So yes, I'd love for you to talk about that. Yeah, I do that for my course as well. And people say it's like their favorite feature, because Oh, yeah, they can just go back and refer to things so easily and so quickly. So I they I personally think that like any course now 2022 and beyond needs to have a private 100%

    Magan Ward 16:17

    Yes, 100%. I agree. Yes. Okay. So

    Sara Whittaker 16:21

    this example of a private podcast is such a cool idea for a lead magnet and a way to grow your email list. Do you have any other kind of out of the box lead magnet ideas that might help listeners who are hoping to launch a new lead magnet this year?

    Magan Ward 16:38

    Yeah, and I've really think for those in this audience, you have audiences filled with educators. So I'm thinking and I do still love audio. So I'm gonna say it again, like an audio only challenge. Maybe you can even package it with like a co working zoom call to I don't know, plan out your August lesson plans and encouraging them to come and purchase and download your products to put together their their lessons, and maybe having the audio only challenge. And then like book, ending it with that co working zoom call. So they can sit down and everybody kind of silently, you know, have their zoom on mute and just kind of work together putting everything together. I don't know, during the summer sometime or something that's a fun event, so that they're not so you know, feeling like they're being run ragged when school starts, because we all know how crazy that is just as a parent, but for teachers, it's pretty intense. So maybe something like that, just to feature very specific like back to school products that you may have in your shop.

    Sara Whittaker 17:41

    That is a fantastic idea. And I always tell people that Summertime is I typically see in the education space, like the podcast downloads spike during the summer, because teachers are like, they have a little bit of time to relax, but they're still very much like thinking about the upcoming year. And so yeah, that would be a perfect time to do something like an audio only challenge. And I love that idea of having a zoom call. Because that's also just a great way to connect with your listeners and kind of build a community around your podcasts and your course I love that.

    Magan Ward 18:16

    Yeah, that would be perfect. And even. And I mean, really, you could do it during the school year as well and have like the co working be like I don't know, on a Saturday morning with coffee or something like that, if you know, just to kind of I know they're exhausted a week from teaching, it's I would be especially with my own three kids. They are living wild, wild things. But yeah, you could do it throughout the year for very specific things, you know, we're going to be coming up if they need to prep, specifically, if you're targeting certain subjects, certain grade levels, things like that. You could do it throughout the year as various things are coming up in the schools.

    Sara Whittaker 18:54

    Yeah, absolutely. And I love the idea of doing it on a weekend as well. Because, yes, after a long school day, not many people want to jump in anything live.

    Magan Ward 19:04

    Not at all. Yes.

    Sara Whittaker 19:07

    I'm also curious, because we were talking about those clients, the true crime clients in the beginning of this episode, which was so cool to hear about, I'd love to know like what were some of the lead magnets or like ways that they drove their listeners to their email list.

    Magan Ward 19:22

    There are two really great things that they use that have just been on fire ever since we launched it. So when they first started their audio wasn't super awesome. And they were kind of ashamed if I sounded I didn't think it was that bad. But I guess as we go along as podcasters like we're like, oh, yeah, that audio is kind of cringy Yeah. So they took down their entire first 44 episodes. We call them the OG episodes. And people started freaking out when they only started episode 45. Of course, the first 44 Like, oh, I want to hear it. And so what they did is they put it on like a private RSS feed and made it an opt in and so now And people can opt in to come get that. So if they are just a listener that's never been on the email list, they just kind of listen to every day, you know, go into work or whatever, they will hear them talk about this first 44 episodes that will go to a certain link and grab access to those first 44. And that gives them an extra, you know, two weeks worth of podcasts to binge. So that one has been a big hit. I mean, there's constantly people coming into the email list from that. So in that aspect, it reminds me of you mentioning your private feed that you have, it's the same concept there. Another one that super popular for them. They always talk about their dad, everybody wants to they call their dad, Miss KB, mi SS. And so we're like, what, why are you calling your dad. And so they recorded, it's like three, maybe four minutes long of a little explanation as to why they call their dad that and that brought in between May and August of this year, it brought in over 1400 subscribers because people are like dying to know. That is why your dad this. So I mean, just to say it doesn't have to be this full on production of a like a pop up podcast, or an entire feed of episodes. It really can be one quick little fun thing that maybe you know fits with whatever your brand is, or anything like that. Because their dad even though no one's ever laid eyes on the man. Everybody knows kind of like who he is because they talk about him all the time. So just to say something so small as a three or four minute audio clip can really be a big hit.

    Sara Whittaker 21:32

    Oh my gosh, that is so funny. That's amazing. And that just like that makes you think, okay, consider what are people constantly asking you about? Like that could be a lead magnet in itself, just answering one question about something.

    Magan Ward 21:45

    Yeah. And something super simple is maybe one of your most popular products and how you can use it or how you can I don't know if he I don't know, if you teach them how to go into Canva and do certain things to prep for their class, like a really quick little brief lesson and make it an audio clip and put it out there into the world.

    Sara Whittaker 22:05

    Yeah, no, that's a great idea, kind of like a tutorial of how to utilize your reach a certain resource. That's a great idea. So many options that kind of are outside of the box of the traditional checklist PDF. Okay, now, what about if there's anybody who is listening who has yet to start their email list, what would be one action step that they could take to get started,

    Magan Ward 22:34

    go start an account with an email marketing provider, mailer Lite, or ConvertKit, and just get set up mailer Lite is free, it's very user friendly. To me, it's more user friendly than MailChimp is. But ConvertKit, though it's not free, it is very affordable when you're just getting started. And it has a lot of extra features for more advanced like automations down the road as you grow your list and your podcast.

    Sara Whittaker 23:01

    Awesome. And then what about somebody who maybe has an email list, but it's pretty small, what could they do to take action on growing there's

    Magan Ward 23:11

    just come up with an irresistible opt in also known as a lead magnet. So you may have heard me say opt in and lead magnet throughout this entire episode, it's the same thing, just for those that might not have known about that, and just share it everywhere, share it on Instagram Stories, put it in your ad spots, or even toward the beginning of your episodes. And I do help you with some of that in a free resource that I brought along. And it's a PDF. I know I told you all they do still work they do, they don't they do. And so that way to help you turn those podcast listeners into email subscribers, and vice versa in your social media as well. I touch on that in this and it's just, if you go to Meghan ward.com, forward slash podcasters. That's it. Megan moore.com, forward slash podcasters. And you can grab that to help turn those listeners into subscribers.

    Sara Whittaker 24:01

    Awesome. That's perfect. And we will definitely include that in the show notes. That sounds like a great resource. Okay, I have just a few questions that are fun that I asked all of my guests and then we'll kind of wrap it up by having you share where where people can find you online. So the first question is, if you could interview a favorite childhood star, who would it be?

    Magan Ward 24:24

    Oh, my goodness. Okay. Literally the only childhood star that is coming to mind right now is Macaulay Culkin and that's also finally let my two oldest kids watch home alone in their brains. What's so funny in their little brains. They realize they're like we guys, he's grown up. I mean, this was like a few years ago. We're not going to talk about how many years ago and it actually was there like it was just a few years ago. He's grown up a little and my son said, is he like 20? No, no, it's like, Oh, honey, no little more than that. So 42 year old man now. He was quite disappointed.

    Sara Whittaker 24:58

    Did you show them a picture of him? Matt did and he goes, Oh, yeah, he's

    Magan Ward 25:03

    not that cute little kid from home alone.

    Sara Whittaker 25:05

    Yes. Such such great movies. I need to I always love watching them around Christmas time. I haven't done it this year. Yeah,

    Magan Ward 25:11

    yes. Oh, they're so good. I think they're all on Disney plus,

    Sara Whittaker 25:14

    so are they? It's good to know, I know what I'll be doing this weekend. All right. And then do you have any favorite podcasts that you're that you're listening to right now for business or for fun?

    Magan Ward 25:26

    For business kind of business and personal both I've been listening to it's about time by Anna Deerman kornek. And the systems made simple podcast with Courtney Elmer. But if we're being honest, I still have a thing for true crime podcast. And I'm continuing to make my way through the Murdoch murder podcast with Mandy Matney. That's all it's about is the Murdoch murders. But there's so many episodes, and it's so in depth, and she's a true like, investigative reporter. So it's very interesting. And so it's taken me a while to get through it, but I'll still go tune in and see if she's got a new episode up for us.

    Sara Whittaker 26:04

    Awesome. Oh, I'll have to check that one out. I haven't listened to that. But it's so funny that you mentioned it's about time because I just discovered that podcast like two weeks ago, and I've been listening to it. Yeah, yeah. I love it. I was actually thinking about maybe reaching out to her and seeing if she would come on the show. Because yeah, I love the topics that she covers. Oh, she's amazing. She's amazing. She's great. All right, and where can people find you after listening today?

    Magan Ward 26:28

    Well, I'm always on Instagram, the Magan Ward, and of course at Megan moore.com. But I want to invite you to come check out my products for podcasters. At the email template shot, I have an entire section just for podcasters. And I wouldn't be a true resource for podcasters if I didn't have my own show. So this is like my official announcement, I guess be on the lookout, my show will launch in quarter one of 2023. It's called the School of marketing. But if you come follow me on Instagram, or hop on my email list, you're going to hear all about that as everything comes together and prepares for the launch of that show.

    Sara Whittaker 27:02

    Awesome. Congratulations. How exciting. And you just announced that I can't wait to listen. Yes, yes. And definitely go check out Magan's resources. I was looking at them and they look absolutely amazing. I saw that you one of them includes like launch email templates to write for podcast launch. Yes,

    Magan Ward 27:21

    yeah, those were on presale for Black Friday. And I sold a few of those and they are going to be ready by December 16. So if the show airs after December 16. It'll be ready for you to go. Grab up if you want. So there's podcasts launch email templates. There's like Patreon onboarding. There's a podcast media kit that I work together with a PR professional. That's a professor at Virginia Tech. And, you know, she's amazing. She's worked with some of my podcasts clients as well and got them great media appearances too. So there's, there's all kinds of good stuff for podcasters. Awesome,

    Sara Whittaker 27:57

    that sounds amazing. Those are like things that I feel like people are always looking for. And there's just not that many resources out there. So that's fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Magan. This has been wonderful. Thanks for being here.

    Magan Ward 28:09

    Thank you so much, Sara.

    Sara Whittaker 28:10

    Before we sign off, let's check out this week's shout out. Each week I'm sharing a voice message from a fellow podcaster and they could be your next podcast guest after listening if you'd like to collaborate with them, you can reach out using the information in the show notes from today's episode. If you're interested in being featured head to podcasting for educators.com/voice Happy collaborating

    Alicia Drier 28:39

    Hi, this is Alicia representing my co host Sarah and me for our podcast lit think where we help teachers redefine literacy by studying pop culture. If you're looking for a podcast guest we'd love to come to talk about both pop culture through literary lens and what we love about teaching education. You can reach us on Instagram at lit think podcast, grab my info and Sarah's show notes. Thanks.

    Sara Whittaker 29:09

    Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. To keep this conversation going connect with me on Instagram at podcasting for educators. I'm always looking for an excuse to talk about podcasting. If you're looking for support and launching, managing or growing your podcast, check out my online course the podcasting for educators prep school at podcasting for educators.com/prep school. I'll see you here next time.

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