Is Nurture-Driven Copy Part of Your Marketing Plan? [Ep. 101]

 
 

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Here’s what to expect from this episode:

Copy plays a huge part in the success of our business. And you probably write way more copy than you even realize. Things like podcast outlines, show notes, emails, social media captions, sales pages, TPT product descriptions, and the list goes on! 

And because your copy is often the deciding factor as to whether people buy from you, today's episode is all about copy—specifically, making nurture-driven copy a part of your marketing plan to help you accomplish your business goals. 

We are joined by my friend and copywriter Branda, who tells us all about nurture-driven copy and how to plan your copy backward from your goals. She also shares her thoughts on AI and some great tips on how to plan, batch, and repurpose your copy. 

Let's go meet Branda!

MEET Branda:

Branda is a copywriter writing emails, blogs, and website copy for not-so-average entrepreneurs. She focuses on nurture-driven copy to help business owners grow their communities and build strong relationships with their audience.

Topics Covered:

  • How Branda defines nurture-driven copy

  • How to plan your copy backward from your goals

  • Branda's thoughts on AI and what to be aware of

  • Why your copy should feel repetitive when launching

  • Batching, brain-switching, and repurposing your content

  • Using Airtable to organize your content

  • Sara Whittaker 0:00

    If you're listening to this, then you probably wear a lot of different entrepreneur hats on a weekly basis. Even if you have a team. You're a podcaster, marketer, content creator and copywriter. You probably write more copy than you even realize things like podcast outlines, show notes, emails, social media, captions, sales pages TPT product descriptions, the list goes on. Copy plays a huge role in the success of our business and is often the deciding factor as to whether or not people buy from us. That is why today's episode is all about copy. We are joined by my friend Branda who is a copywriter, writing emails, blogs and website copy for not so average entrepreneurs. She focuses on nurture driven copy to help business owners grow their communities and build strong relationships with their audience. Branda tells us all about what nurturer driven copy is and how you can create copy that supports your business goals. Plus, she'll share some great tips on how to plan batch and repurpose copy. Let's go ahead and get started. Your Podcast is a powerful tool that serves your audience and your business. But how do you manage it all bring in new listeners and convert those listeners into customers. That's what this show is all about. Welcome to podcasting for educators. I'm Sara Whitaker, classroom teacher turn podcast manager. And I'm here to help you get the most out of your show, all while making an impact on other educators. All right, we are back with Branda, Branda. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for being here.

    Branda Villacob 1:45

    All right, thanks so much for having me. Of course,

    Sara Whittaker 1:48

    you did a training for my newest audio course will my only audio course. But my newest course that I created podcasts like you mean it and it was so good all about creating your nurture sequences. So I am really excited to have you on this podcast as well. And we're gonna be talking all about copy, which as business owners is a big piece of our business, with sales pages, emails, podcast, outlines, podcast scripts, however, you structure, your podcast planning, but it's definitely a big chunk of what we do. And I know it's something that a lot of people struggle with. So I'm really excited to get your insight on that today. And let's just jump in. And I know you talk a lot about nurture driven copy. So can you kind of explain what that is?

    Branda Villacob 2:44

    Yeah, so a lot of times when we think about marketing, or copy, we kind of tend to think sales, because that is ultimately our goal. But nurture driven copy, it's kind of coming from a different angle, saying that, first I want to start with the relationships, I want to start with the connections that I'm building, I want to make sure that I'm establishing good rapport with people. Because ultimately, that is going to be a big distinguisher on whether people decide to buy from you. There are people who go to just like search engines and are going to type something in and you happen to have what they want. And they're like, cool, I'm gonna buy it. But also, there's a lot of times where, especially when it comes to like, maybe listening to your podcast, or buying your membership that it's going to actually take having that conversation with him previously, and building that relationship with that person for them to actually want to listen to you and to want to learn from you and want to work with you.

    Sara Whittaker 3:38

    Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree more. I think it's really important to think about the different types of buyers out there, like some people are really quick to buy, some people don't even like look at your sales page. They just know that they want what you have to offer. But other people do need to get to know you over time. And so yeah, I think copy comes into play a lot. So how can you plan what your goals are in your business, and then create copy that really supports what you want to accomplish? Yeah, so

    Branda Villacob 4:11

    this is really huge for me, and I practice what I preach on this one, I definitely feel that planning is the ultimate key to a lot of success in marketing, but especially when it comes to your copy. I know that sometimes writing your show notes or blogs and Instagram posts are not the most exciting things in the world. But when we don't have a plan for it and just kind of like jump willy nilly into it. Our marketing and our sales tend to suffer. So you should always start first with I like to do quarterly goals. I know everyone kind of does things in mind and it's ultimately up to you but I like to plan for the quarter and just think what is the big thing I want to accomplish this quarter. I have shiny object syndrome. I'm the perfectionist who wants to do all the things so I know how hard it is sometimes to nail down like one really big goal but it's super important. that you do that. And then I like to take it month by month from there. So let's say my ultimate goal is maybe boosting, listens on downloads on my podcast, or maybe getting someone into membership, you know, certain amount of people, but what am I going to do over the next three months to make that goal happen? And that's where your copy is gonna come in place. So if my goal is to get 200 people on my membership inside my membership, then what do I need to do leading up to that? Because I can't just send one email and be like, hey, doors open, come inside, right? They're gonna be like, what? The first time I'm hearing from you?

    Sara Whittaker 5:35

    Yes. And we all have people like that in our inbox. And I know, I've been noticing it so much lately. I feel like there's like a big influx like it in the new year, and then it dies down a little bit, and then it builds back up again. And I'm like, I haven't gotten an email from you in months. Yes.

    Branda Villacob 5:51

    And that's super ineffective, because you'd like forgotten who that person is at that point. And you know, we all open emails from people that we actually know and that you know, their name and their business, that's tends to be the emails that we read, that's going to be the podcast that you listen to, I know who you are, I like learning from you. I'm not just probably going to pick some random person, at least not regularly. Right? So ultimately, that's what we want to do is like, create that plan. Again, if I'm trying to get people into membership, what am I going to do leading up to that? How many emails do I need to send? What do they need to do, I'm probably want to build up to that membership. So if I'm, you know, doing membership, podcasting, I probably want to talk about, like, why it's important, and what you may need to have before you even start podcasting, which when you can think about and then when it's time to have the membership, people have already had those thoughts already going in their head, so you're more likely to meet your goals, whatever that marketing goal was. So when it comes to planning, that's kind of what I have in mind when I say coffee and planning going together. I know, like I said, copy is not always the thing that like we think about what to do when it comes to marketing, I think about graphics and recording podcasts. But our copy is ultimately a lot of times what gets people to those other places.

    Sara Whittaker 7:01

    Yeah, I love this, because I don't think I really have ever thought about planning. I'm always like podcast, podcast podcast, but I haven't really thought about planning out your copy in a way that really aligns with your goals. And I mean, when you do that, everything else kind of falls into place. Like if you're messaging, which, ideally would be consistent across all of your platforms, podcasts, email, blog, social media, all of that, it's going to make everything so much easier in the long run. So I love this idea. Okay, so if somebody is like, okay, I get that I get that I need to align my copy with my goals and kind of do that backwards planning approach, which I love, like, start with your goal and plan backwards from there. How would they actually go about planning the copy.

    Branda Villacob 7:53

    So I like to start again, first with just like a map. So I like to kind of pull up my calendar for that three month period. And you can definitely go month by month, I kind of like to have a general plan, knowing that things are going to change. If you plan out a whole quarter, things are going to change life happens, you know, so don't think that it's like, I have to stick to this. And if I don't, I have failure. No, I change mine all the time. So but having a roadmap and plan can make adjustments easier. Just like your teacher, you know what it's like your lessons get moved around curriculum changes, we know to test but at least we know where we're going. So it's easier to move the lessons around. So have that quarterly plan, begin creating those maps and think about the types of content that you need to have. So start with the macro content, that's going to be your long form content, like blogs, podcast, whatever kind of things you have going on YouTube, and you're going to want to plan those things out first, that's going to be what funnels into everything else. So think about January, what? Podcast mega release. Great. Okay, am I going to create show notes for that? Okay, great. I have that planned. Now, what's the next piece probably going to funnel down into emails? How many emails do you want to send that month? How are you going to get people to your podcast using your emails, and then go to the step further of social media, whether that's Facebook groups, posting in, you know, I don't know people saw Facebook pages and posting there, on your Instagram on tick tock, whatever you plan to do to again, kind of continue creating that funnel. So it's kind of taking in that macro piece and falling down to the micro and I know some people are gonna think well, what does social media has to do with copy it that is copy your captions are the copy Tiktok still has captions, it still has the copy that goes inside of your Lincoln bio. It has all those components to it as well what you type on the video, what text you put on your reel or whatever it is. So copy is a part of all of those things, and know that visuals again tend to be more appealing to a lot of us. But your messaging like you had said it's gonna be really key and you want to make sure that's consistent across everything that you're doing, and that it's again leading people towards your goals doesn't mean you can't still throw some fun things in there that are meaningless. Those are fun too. Those are great connection pieces. That's what the nurturer driven copy comes in. Not everything has to be leading to a sale. It's also about helping people get to know you. But yeah, you want to make sure that you have all those coffee pieces ready to go. Because you don't want to be renting your caption last minute. That's how we write kind of captions aren't that great that we're just like, pulling out the old Instagram quotes, you know, just say, that shouldn't be your consistent messaging across your social media or email.

    Sara Whittaker 10:33

    Yes, I am laughing because I have helped with social media now. But before I, you think about the graphic, and that's where your mind goes, and then it's actually time to post and you're like, oh, shoot, I need a caption for this thing.

    Branda Villacob 10:49

    Yes. And I was like, you know, that's gonna still happen. I think this week I've been this week has been crazy. So I was throwing together my own social media posts like it happens. I think sometimes people expect like, Oh, I'm a copywriter. It must mean I have like everything together behind the scenes, like, no, sometimes I'm also throwing it together. So I totally get it. That's what a content plan should work for you, not against you. But that's why you also plan in advance. So I'm not like, you know, yes. I just got off of a launch last month. So I It's okay, if I'm a little bit flexible right now, that's a part of my plan. And I will get back on track soon.

    Sara Whittaker 11:22

    I'm in the exact same boat. I think we launched. I am telling you side note, but the week that I launched podcasts like you mean it. I feel like everybody I knew online was launching something that week, it was crazy. I'm like, what's going on? Is this week to launch? I don't know.

    Branda Villacob 11:40

    Yes. I think I had like three different people. I was doing collaborations with and launching. I'm like, I'm so sorry. I can't give you attention right now. I in launched

    Sara Whittaker 11:47

    brains? Totally. Yes. Oh, my gosh. And okay, Another side note, and I did not ask you this before. So if you're not, if you don't have an opinion on it, it's okay. But as we're talking about this, I am super curious what your thoughts are on AI?

    Branda Villacob 12:05

    I know you're gonna say that. Okay, so I do have some thoughts. And I want to preface by saying that all these opinions are based on AI as we know it. Right. Yeah, April 25. So that may change at some point in the future. But I think right now, I kind of have like two big things about AI that I've learned. One, I think one thing to be careful with is the ownership of your content. Yeah, something that I've just heard that I don't have chat GPT. But I think that's part of his initial contract, you said at the beginning of saying like, this isn't really yours. Technically, this is checked with the cheese stuff. So kind of think about that before you put your content out there. And also, Google's gonna get really good. It's already working on this. And it's going to continue to work on it. And now the AI is becoming huge at noticing what is AI content, because when it comes to SEO, it's all about value. It's all about giving that value packed information. And so if it just feels like you're regurgitating old stuff, and it's not even really brand new thoughts, it doesn't really want to promote that. So I think that's the two big caution areas. However, I think AI can be really great for generating ideas. Even like yesterday night, I was thinking about a blog post I needed to write and I was like, I don't really know, like, I can't think of any more points to say. So I use like Canvas, little AI magic, right that they have. And it just kind of helps you come up with some ideas, right? It doesn't mean I'm going to use I don't want to use their scripted opposed to what they say, I'm not going to use all 10 of their points. But I'm like, oh, that's actually a good point. I didn't even think to put that in there. Now I can make sure I add that and put my own personal spin on it. But my own personal thoughts and opinions on that. I'm going to regurgitate what they told me. I think that is what's important. Is your personal spin on the information. Because let's be honest, none of us really had that many original ideas. So it's all about your personal team.

    Sara Whittaker 14:00

    Yeah. Okay. I couldn't agree more. I have the exact same thoughts. I've people have asked me. Have you done an episode on using AI tools for podcasting? I'm like, I haven't yet because I'm still a little bit cautious of it. Yeah, for the exact reasons that you pointed out. And I'm still kind of like experimenting and trying the different platforms. And I'm totally with you. That's kind of how I've been using it as just like, Oh, that was one thing I didn't think to put in there or I'll use it for like generating podcast episode titles. I think it's really great for that. Just kind of like sparking ideas to give you a jumping off point. Okay, sorry, that was a side tangent, but I just had to. Okay, so we were talking about planning out your copy, with that kind of backwards design approach and aligning your messaging across all of those different platforms. Was there anything else you wanted to add about that?

    Branda Villacob 14:56

    No, I think that was just a bit. That's just as really big. Part of everything that I preach in my business is that planning, if you can get ahead on it and you feel it can be on top of it, so many people that I worked with are like, it just makes a huge difference in how you feel in your own marketing. If you feel like you are tripping over your feet every month, coming up with your emails and your podcast episodes and all that, you've got to start with the planning.

    Sara Whittaker 15:22

    Yeah, definitely. And I feel like what I see happen so much is people especially when they're doing an official launch for something like a membership or a course, they don't give enough of that runway time. So they haven't sent out enough emails to really warm people up, or they haven't put out enough podcast episodes that aligns with what they're trying to funnel people into. And so it just becomes like this mad dash at the end for those like couple of weeks before launching something. So if you can work ahead, like you were describing, it pays off for you in the long run. And then that content can continue to work for you even after your launch

    Branda Villacob 16:03

    upgrade. And I think one of the big hesitancies that a lot of people have with like planning ahead or doing that runway, whether it be for a launch, or whether it be for a new product that you're coming out with. They feel like they're talking about the same thing all the time. Like I'm just repeating myself. And that's so annoying. And I'm tired of saying it. So everyone must be tired of hearing it. And it's like, actually, no, most people probably aren't reading what you put out every single time. They're not seeing all of it, you're tired of it, because you're saying it over and over. And if you feel like a broken record, unfortunately, you're probably doing it right. Yeah, I know. It's not fun launching can be really exhausting. You know that as well as I do. Yes. But at the same time, that consistent messaging is gonna pay off so much, like you said, when it comes time to putting it out there, because they've heard it before. Hopefully by that point, right? You've set it for two months, you've let it up, and they're like, I'm ready to buy, you know, or at least they're like, I'm curious. That's at least the place we want people to be in. Yeah,

    Sara Whittaker 17:01

    definitely. And when we think about like a traditional launch, it's always been that webinar that like really kicks people off. But I know so many people are trying to find other ways to launch things without doing live webinars, myself included. And copy is like the most important thing when it comes to that because email ultimately, at least in my experience is what really like seals the deal with people.

    Branda Villacob 17:27

    Yes, I totally agree getting people on your email list is is king. So

    Sara Whittaker 17:32

    yeah, for sure. Okay, now, kind of along that topic of planning ahead, in terms of batching. Because this is another thing, like, I know, so many people love the idea of batching. And they want to batch whether it's podcast episodes, emails, show notes, whatever it is, but actually doing it is really difficult. So how do you approach batching? What are some of your tips for that?

    Branda Villacob 18:01

    Yeah, it kind of goes back to what I said about starting with the macro piece of content and working down. You know, if you're going to try to write an email about a podcast you haven't released yet, or a blog, that's gonna be pretty hard. So you should probably start first with batching, those big pieces that you know, we're going to funnel into everything else. And then when it comes specifically to batching email, I like to start going in the phases. So start with drafting and drafting should be like word vomit on the page, we get so caught up in like, just writing it perfect the first time you do it, and it's not, it's not gonna sound great. Even as someone who writes full time for people I just booked, throw it out there, you know, and it sounds like trash. I was like on don't read that. That's not for your eyes. Yeah. And then, you know, do the do the bashing of just getting it out there, set a timer, and then go back and do the batching of editing, do batching of revising, right. And that's when you're actually combing through, then go through and actually pick out images you might want to put in there, make sure your links are good to go. And I like to do this in a Google Doc, so that I have access to these later, it's really easy for me to find my emails later. And then batch putting them in. And you're just going to find it goes so much faster when you're doing each thing and a segment and you're not trying to go back and forth, back and forth in your brain on exactly what you need to be doing. And you can really knock out you're doing weekly emails for that's four to five emails a month, you could easily get that done. And of course of a week, if you spend each day just doing one component, right? One day, you just get the words out next day you do some editing, whatever, but just break it up into chunks that's more manageable. And you'll find that that brain switching won't hold you back as much.

    Sara Whittaker 19:41

    Yeah, that's a great tip. Because it is true. You use different parts of your brain for all of these different tasks. And it does get to be a lot if you're doing everything at once and then doing everything at once again after you finish that. Also, I need to start writing my emails in Google Docs because Is it so hard to find in your email provider?

    Branda Villacob 20:03

    Oh, yes, it is. Especially if you I don't know what email you use, like ConvertKit if you search in there and like only pools, the either the subject line, or I think also the like coding that you might put in there. And so it's just annoying if you didn't mention the name of that later. Like, where is that email? Yeah, yes. Yeah. I mean, that is a big part of repurposing. Not reusable emails. No one's gonna remember that email that you wrote 10 months ago?

    Sara Whittaker 20:27

    Yeah. 100% even like launch emails. I'll have i Yes, reuse them and just tweak them and like, Judge certain things, and it's great. Yeah, totally. Okay. Now you I feel like you've given us some tips about repurposing already. We've touched a little bit on repurposing, but what else would you say in terms of making content repurposing? Simple and easy for

    Branda Villacob 20:56

    people? Yeah, thinking kind of goes back to what we were just saying about putting things in a really convenient place. Find somewhere that you can keep track of your information that's easily searchable. airtable is like my go to I put all my Instagram graphics in there, all my captions, I put my emails, my blog links, everything's inside of there. So later, if I want to talk about the same blog, again, I'm like, why would I create new graphics to go on Instagram? I can just pull these right here. Why would I try to search on my website for this blog that I wrote that I'm like, I can't even remember what it's called, and try to read now just pull backup, emails can be a little bit trickier to keep in a great place. That's why I think Google Docs is probably the best place to go. And I typically label them by like quarter. So I feel like quarter ones, emails, quarter threes. And then you can just make a note for yourself inside of your table or Google Sheet, wherever you're tracking your content plan, make a note of where you put it, I like to even just put the link to the Google doc there. So that I can easily just click on it later, I can find whichever one I need and pull it back up. I do that for my launch emails, too. It makes it super easy. I don't have to like hunt them down. Because no matter how organized your Google Drive is, I feel like somehow I always leave things on there. So

    Sara Whittaker 22:07

    yes, yes. Same. I know I love that idea. You are like the fifth person in a row who has said how much they love airtable. So I need to I need to start using your table. And I'm going to ask you the same question I just asked somebody else I was talking to. So you use air table for that? Do you use something else? In addition for project management?

    Branda Villacob 22:30

    Yeah, so use air table more for like tracking my content. And I also keep track of client information in there. But for actual project management and to dues and all those kinds of things I use Monday. I know, I feel like you just have to find one that works for your brain. I feel like I've tried all of them. For sure. Monday has just been the one that I feel like it's very visual if you're really visual person.

    Sara Whittaker 22:52

    Yeah, one of my clients uses that I use click up. But I have a client on Monday. And I like it. I like it a lot. Yeah. Perfect. Well, you gave us lots of good information. Thank you so much. Is there anything else that you wanted to add before we wrap up?

    Branda Villacob 23:07

    No, I don't think so. Really appreciate you letting me come on and chat about coffee can definitely get me going for hours about that. So

    Sara Whittaker 23:17

    of course I Yeah. It's something that we haven't really talked about on the podcast yet. So I think it's going to be awesome for people to hear. Now, can you let everybody know where they can find you online?

    Branda Villacob 23:27

    Yeah, I hang out on Instagram. That's my go to place at the relevant collective. And of course, I have some freebies on there. If you want to sign up for my email list, I do send weekly emails. And other than that, I have a great place where I talk more about coffee called Coffee obsessed. It's it's not really a membership program, because you have lifetime access you buy in but talk about building your brand voice that you can have that consistent sounding message and tone throughout all of your coffee, no matter where you're writing it. I also have lots of swipe files in there for printing emails, and I'm building it out for launch emails in the future blog copy. And the summer I'll be talking about repurposing effect there too. So it's just a great like place for just teacher sellers to kind of find a hub for all things copy.

    Sara Whittaker 24:11

    Perfect. And in case you didn't hear she said swipe copy. I have people asking for swipe copy all the time for emails, especially because I know people have a really hard time writing emails about their podcast episodes. So yeah, check that out. We will put everything in the show notes. And Brando, thank you so much for being here. Yeah,

    Branda Villacob 24:31

    thank you so much for having me.

    Sara Whittaker 24:34

    Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. To keep this conversation going connect with me on Instagram at podcasting for educators. I'm always looking for an excuse to talk about podcasting. If you're looking for support and launching, managing or growing your podcasts, check out my online course the podcasting for educators prep school at podcasting for educators.com/prep school. I'll see you here next time.

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Podcasting for Educators is the podcast for TpT authors and other online educators. It's a show that will help you get your podcast in front of those who need it most - teachers, counselors, literacy specialists, SLPs, parents, and more! Each week, Sara Whittaker and her guests will share top tips and actionable strategies that you will need in order to launch, manage, and grow your podcast. You’ll learn how to leverage your show to build long-lasting relationships with your audience and promote your TpT resources, courses, and memberships, all while providing valuable and accessible content!

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